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Old 01-10-2006, 07:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
theredpill
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Default Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination)

I've been fascinated by the never-ending debate among many regarding the issue of predestination and God's omni qualities of power, presence, and knowledge. So keeping that familiar debate in mind, the question i have is....can God ever be surprised?

By way of a caveat i should say that i am no master logician (i wish i was), so i can only self reference to a large degree of what SEEMS logical and reasonable to me.

This is my thesis: I contend that complete knowledge of everything, both what has been, what is, and what will be, by virtue of its totality of knowledge, excludes the capability of being surprised by anything.

Secondly i contend that 'surprise', as a momentary condition with which we as humans are all very familiar, is a necessary component and requisite quality in making a Being capable enjoying the fruit of another beings 'freedom of choice'.

Third i contend that God could not fully enjoy our alleged 'freedom of choice' to serve Him if all the while He knows that we either would or would not, owing to the plausible argument in my view that, God having already known what a person would choose cannot possibly be surprised that the individual would choose him, thereby removing any quality of surprise or delight, which i argue cannot coexist with all-knowledge.


I apologize if i havent framed my thesis in the most cogent and concise fashion. I will seek to illustrate each point of my thesis by way of illustrations, analogies and comparisons.

Point 1. It occurs to me that surprise, which i cannot help but see as invariably related to 'delight', is a by product of not knowing everything. Also that if one does know everything, their ability to be delighted in the sense of being surprised or pleasantly caught off guard, cannot exist.

For example. Say as a parent you give your young child a piece of paper and some crayons, they want to draw you a picture. You are in the kitchen or doing some housework when after some time has passed your child brings you a beautiful drawing or coloring. You notice how fine a picture it is and delight in their creation. You also could very well be surprised at what the picture consists of, because you didnt see what they were drawing while the work was in progress.

Now, lets say that instead of waiting till the picture was done, you checked in on your child from time to time, and then were able to see the work in progress, thus divesting the drawing of any mystery, since you had seen what it was shaping up to be. Then when the drawing is finished your child brings it to you, and you FEIGN surprise, or you do not, your choice....but all the same you can still legitimately DELIGHT in the beauty of the drawing, since one does not need to be surprised in order to delight in something.

But, can anyone genuinely say that they would prefer to be WITHOUT that quality of surprise if they could choose? Recall the moments in your life when someone you cared for deeply came from 'left field' and did something totally unexpected and wonderful for you, remember how your heart and soul leapt within you and thrilled with the revelation that someone had been plotting of ways to please you, while keeping it a secret until the unveiling. How different that experience would be if all the while you knew exactly what they were up to. In what condition would you prefer to enjoy that experience?

Point 2 and 3. Many Christians say the reason why God created beings with 'freedom of choice' is that he wanted to know that if his creatures loved him it would be because they CHOSE to do so. That argument implies that God wouldnt derive the same kind of enjoyment from the love of his creatures if it had been 'programmed' into them. In my view this implies quite heavily that the 'freedom of choice' or 'free will' contains within its nature or makeup an 'x factor' if you please...or rather a quality of uncertainty, at least as far as the creature is concerned. But, as far as God is concerned, if he already knows whether or not a creature will choose to love him, does that not affect the quality of delight he is capable of experiencing?

In other words....if you are courting a person of interest....and you love them, and you hope that they will reciprocate that love......if they finally do tell you they feel the same, there is rejoicing in the fact that they CHOSE to love you. If however you already knew when you met someone that they would either choose or not choose to love you, would there be any incentive at all in trying to WIN their love? You after all would already know what they were going to choose and it would be a complete waste of time in trying to convince them otherwise, at least as far as their choice is concerned. If there were other associated qualities of this experience that needed illustration thats another matter altogether, and ill get to that.


Ok, well, forgive my very flawed and imperfect verbalization of a theological quandary in which many are caught.

Frankly, many people cannot imagine true 'free will' coexisting with Gods foreknowledge.

Many apologists suggest that Gods foreknowledge doesnt keep us from choosing, it only means that he knows what we will choose. Try to wrap your mind around that.

Well, in part i can agree with that, owing to the fact that no matter how truly free we are to do whatever we wish....there are not in fact infinite choices available to us.


This is all i have for now, i have other thoughts, but ive already made this longer than i intended....and as well, this was written extemporaneously which may explain its disarray..i beg your indulgence and any comments, thank you
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