Episcopal church does not evangelize?

[Darth_Bill]

Following, my query.

Sri Sri Radha Krishna Temple - Utah Krishnas

Episcopal Christians apologise to Hindus
http://indiasecular .wordpress. com/
Arthur J Pais: February 25, 2008


An unqualified apology from a Christian community to Hindus worldwide, which also denounced proselytisation by Christian missionaries, has triggered a debate among pastors across the United States.

The apology, tendered by Right Reverend J Jon Bruno, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, is arguably the first of its kind by a major Christian congregation, and was issued 'for centuries-old acts of religious discrimination by Christians, including attempts to convert them.'

While some Episcopal Christians have protested against the apology, made during an Indian-style Mass complete with aarti and kirtans, on January 19 in the presence of over 100 Hindu spiritual leaders and lay people, organisers of the event insist it was the right step in the right direction.

'I believe that the world cannot afford for us to repeat the errors of our past, in which we sought to dominate rather than to serve,' Bruno, who owing to a personal emergency could not be present, said in a statement that was read out by the Right Reverend Chester Talton.

'In this spirit, and in order to take another step in building trust between our two great religious traditions, I offer a sincere apology to the Hindu religious community.'
The apology was made in a ceremony to mark three years of dialogue between Hindus and Christians, initiated among others by the Reverend Karen MacQueen, better known as Mother Karen. She is deeply influenced by Vedanta philosophy, and fiercely opposes the conversions- for-kindness methodology.

The apology was a small act compared to Pope John Paul II's unprecedented apology for the sins of Christians through the ages, made a few years ago.

'We forgive and we ask forgiveness,' the Pope had said during a historic Lenten liturgy in St Peter's Basilica. He, along with Vatican officials, pronounced a 'request for pardon' for 'sins against Christian unity, the use of violence in serving the truth, hostility toward Jews and other religions, the marginalisation of women, and wrongs - like abortion - against society's weakest members.'

"In our case, the apology is part of the dialogue we initiated with a few Hindu leaders three years ago," Mother Karen said. "The healing process will continue," she said but she wasn't sure certain Christian denomination will change their conversion tactics.

The ceremony started with the Hindu priestess Pravrajika Saradeshaprana blowing into a conch shell three times, in a call to Hindu and Episcopal religious leaders to join the ceremony.

The rare joint service included chants from the Temple Bhajan Band of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and a moving rendition of Bless the Lord, O My Soul sung by the St John's choir, the LA Times reported.

The newspaper, which gave considerable space to the story, however erroneously, reported that Hindus had received the Holy Eucharist. "They ran a correction," Mother Karen said. But by then many Christians were upset.

"The fact remains that there were many Indian Christians who received the Eucharist," she said. The newspaper mistook them for the Hindus, she said chuckling.
In its correction, the LA Times wrote, 'Hindu-Episcopal service: An article in Sunday's California section about a joint religious service involving Hindus and Episcopalians said that all those attending the service at St John's Cathedral in Los Angeles were invited to Holy Communion. Although attendees walked toward the Communion table, only Christians were encouraged to partake of Communion. Out of respect for Hindu beliefs, the Hindus were invited to take a flower. Also, the article described Hindus consuming bread during Communion, but some of those worshippers were Christians wearing traditional Indian dress'.

Bishop Bruno's stand against 'proselytising' has meanwhile impressed many Hindus. Swami Sarvadevananda, of the Vedanta Society of Southern California, called Bruno's stance 'a great and courageous step' that binds the two communities.

'By declaring that there will be no more proselytising, the bishop has opened a new door of understanding,' he told the LA Times. 'The modern religious man must expand his understanding and love of religions and their practices.'

Mother Karen, who has visited India many times since her first sojourn at Mother Teresa's hospice in Kolkota, wishes to see Hindu-Christian dialogue in India. "But it cannot be done effectively when some church leaders are going around converting people in the name of charitable work," she said.

"There are enough Christians in the world. What we need to see is more Christians leading an exemplary life and truly loving their fellow man."

In her homily 'A Vision for Inter-Religious Dialogue' at the church event, Mother Karen said in both Hinduism and Christianity, devotees believe that 'the Divine Presence' illuminates the whole world.

Mother Karen, who continues to study Hinduism, also said both faiths revere 'great figures who embody the divine light, who teach the divine truth.' http://www.rediff. com/news/ 2008/feb/ 25apology. htm

I don't quite understand how there is a christian that doesn't realize that the "Grand Commission" is in opposition to the bolded.

And to say that there are enough christians in the world...seems to miss the point entirely. Now, I'm not one to say that I am that proud of the denoms that exist today, but the gospel brings peace.

[michael_legna]

Originally Posted by Darth_Bill

I don't quite understand how there is a christian that doesn't realize that the "Grand Commission" is in opposition to the bolded.

And to say that there are enough christians in the world...seems to miss the point entirely. Now, I'm not one to say that I am that proud of the denoms that exist today, but the gospel brings peace.

Yeah that makes no sense to me either, and the article makes another fairly gross error (IMHO) as well when it says:

The apology was a small act compared to Pope John Paul II's unprecedented apology for the sins of Christians through the ages, made a few years ago.

That apology was not for evangelizing but for the manner in which the Catholic Church treated others who belonged to other Churches or religions. At most it was an apology for the manner in which evangelization (if you could call it that) was done, not for the actual act of evangelization nor for the wish for them to be converted or any promise to stop attempting to bring that about.

The Great Commission seems to me to be inherent to Christianity.

I do agree (rather than disagree) with one part of the phrases you bolded though -

What we need to see is more Christians leading an exemplary life and truly loving their fellow man.

But this can be done without claiming we don't need any more Christians in the world (and I know you know this too).

[Darth_Bill]

I didn't want to speak about what the pope had said. I think that the poster had taken his comments a bit too far. I have found that with some of the hindu sites that I read that they take some statements to be a bit more than they are. I'm not sure if this is a cultural thing or if they somehow want to score "points" to show the faults of others.

I will say that from my indian friends at work that christianity has a very bad reputation. There have been many irresponsible missionary efforts there. I think this might be from working off the poverty of the people, educational level or our assumptions about polytheistic religions.

I want to add that I'm not laying the blame of this at other's feet. I don't think my church has a large missionary program in India as I think there are governmental restrictions. However, I do know that some pretty shady tactics were used by some missions in my faith in the latin countries of the Americas. In fact, we have sent one of the apostles permanently down there to correct the situation. It is an interesting story really, but not one that receives much publicity.

[Symeon]

Originally Posted by Darth_Bill

Following, my query.

Sri Sri Radha Krishna Temple - Utah Krishnas <quote snipped, for space>

I don't quite understand how there is a christian that doesn't realize that the "Grand Commission" is in opposition to the bolded.

I suppose you mean, in opposition to the Episc Bishop's statement:

'By declaring that there will be no more proselytizing, the bishop has opened a new door of understanding,' he told the LA Times. 'The modern religious man must expand his understanding and love of religions and their practices.'

It may be helpful to think of this in terms of the Episc Church's historical relationship with the Church of England, and with the British Empire. Western missionary work in the Third World in the 19th century and early 20th century (the heyday of such work) often transplanted both the doctrines of the Western missionaries to the converts, and also their cultures (and cultural values). This cultural transplantation could last a long time.

As an example in miniature, in 1979 (I think) I visited a friend who was in Sierra Leone in the Peace Corps. On Sunday we went to a local Methodist congregation, which was made up entirely of local people. When they learned that we could sing, they eagerly asked us to sing something out of the American Methodist hymnal they were using -- so that they could hear "the real thing," was my impression. They certainly seemed delighted by our less-than-stellar performance.

American Methodist hymns? In the bush in Sierra Leone? C'mon. Don't they have their own kinds of music? Well perhaps ... but that particular Methodist missionary "knew" that Methodist hymns were best of all. *shrug*

India was, of course, the location of "the British Raj," the "jewel in the crown" of the British Empire for nearly 100 years. And British evangelism in India was in many cases an attempt by British missionaries to "civilize the heathen" ... which meant, to Anglicize them, just as much as it meant to Christianize them. It was, in many cases, an explicit act of cultural imperialism, attempting to extinguish the culture of India in the course of making its inhabitants Christians.

These factors were hugely obvious to the Hindu representatives who participated in this ceremony. They were very probably strongly obvious to the Reverend Karen MacQueen, who is evidently a fan of Hindu spirituality. She probably made it *clear enough* to her bishop to get him to issue the statement and participate in the ceremony.

But they're not likely to be obvious to most (other) Americans, if only because we think of "imperialists" as "them", not "us".

I'm not saying that this history should override evangelism. But it's a factor that Western missionaries now in the old imperial-colony world (Africa, Asia) have had to take into consideration, as they plan their own mission work.

Originally Posted by DB

And to say that there are enough christians in the world...seems to miss the point entirely. Now, I'm not one to say that I am that proud of the denoms that exist today, but the gospel brings peace.

Uh, the Thirty Years War?

Yeah, I know. Anyway, consider the source of that particular quote: the Hindu-fangirl Episc priest ... not the Episc bishop.

Yeah, she's got an opinion on the subject. Opinions are like a******s ... everybody has one, eh?

Just another example of the, ah, diversity of opinions in the Episc Church.

[Darth_Bill]

Uh, the Thirty Years War?

Which is why I made the distinction between denoms (sectarianism) and the gospel. I don't necessarily equate the two. The Gospel does bring peace, or else we have some serious psychotherapy that we need to get to.

And I am aware of the sins of the british empire....if they are to be called that. I would probably side with the hindus a lot of the time. More of the modern christian denoms probably aren't helping the situation.