California prop 8

[Darth_Bill]

I really haven't paid too much attention to this other than from another board, Mormon Apologetics & Discussion Board, but it seems that after once again passing, the GLB community have decided that it was all the Mormon's fault. They have staged protests at LDS temples and probably chapels this sunday to talk about how the LDS church "hates" gays.

While I'm not sure of the math, I don't think that there are 8 million mormons in California. The church recommended that we donate time and effort to pro-prop 8 causes but I don't think they gave directly. Also, I'm pretty sure the catholic - protestant communities had their own support for this. I'm not sure if they are being protested. However, the LDS are. Is it a surprise to some that the LDS church doesn't foster homosexuality? I'm also pretty sure we aren't the only ones.

Just an odd series of actions to me. Why the LDS church is being blamed and not nearly every other religion and group isn't is perplexing. It may be bias in reporting too. I'm not sure if there is focus on any other group either.

[Darth_Bill]

Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood - Los Angeles Times
From the Los Angeles Times
Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
Gay-rights activists criticize the church for helping to collect millions to aid passage of ban on gay marriage.
By Jessica Garrison and Joanna Lin
November 7, 2008
More than a thousand gay-rights activists gathered Thursday afternoon outside the Mormon temple in Westwood to protest the role Mormons played in passing Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California.
It was the latest in an escalating campaign directed against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for its role in marshaling millions of dollars in contributions from its members for the successful campaign to take away same-sex marriage rights.
Members of the Mormon church, who were strongly urged by church leaders to contribute to the Proposition 8 campaign, had an undeniable role in the measure's victory. Opponents of Proposition 8 have accused the church of discriminating against homosexuals, but the backlash against the denomination has also sparked accusations of discrimination.
During the campaign, a website established by Proposition 8 opponents used campaign finance data and other public records to track Mormon political contributions to the Yes-on-8 campaign. Opponents estimated that members of the church had given more than $20 million, but the amount is difficult to confirm since the state does not track the religious affiliation of donors.
Critics of the website noted that the religious affiliations of other political donors are not generally researched.
A commercial opposing Proposition 8 also drew criticism. In it, two actors portraying Mormon missionaries forced their way into the well-kept home of a married lesbian couple.
"Hi, we're here from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," one says.
"We're here to take away your rights," says his partner.
The missionaries then rip the wedding rings from the women's fingers and ransack their house until they find the women's marriage license, which they destroy.
"Hey, we have rights," one of the women says.
"Not if we can help it," answers the missionary.
The ad was produced by an independent group not affiliated with the official No-on-8 campaign and was shown on MSNBC and Comedy Central, according to Rick Jacobs of the Courage Campaign, a progressive political group.
Jeff Flint, strategist for Yes on 8, called the ad "despicable" and said it "crossed every line of decency."
"I am appalled at the level of Mormon-bashing that went on during the Proposition 8 campaign and continues to this day," he said. "If this activity were directed against any other church, if someone put up a website that targeted Jews or Catholics in a similar fashion for the mere act of participating in a political campaign, it would be widely and rightfully condemned."
Members and leaders of the Catholic Church and other Christian churches were also heavily involved in the campaign to pass Proposition 8. The Knights of Columbus, which is tied to the Catholic Church, gave $1 million, and several evangelical groups gave millions more. But they have not come under the same kind of attack.
Leaders of the No-on-8 campaign said they did not believe they were engaged in Mormon-bashing. "This is not about religion," said Jacobs. "This is about a church that put itself in the middle of politics."
Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said she had grown up in the Mormon Church and thought it was "very disappointing what the church has done and the alliances they have made with churches that don't even like them and have called the church a cult."
Church officials made few public statements during the campaign. On Thursday, they issued a statement asking for "a spirit of mutual respect and civility."
"The Church acknowledges that such an emotionally charged issue concerning the most personal and cherished aspects of life -- family and marriage -- stirs fervent and deep feelings," church spokeswoman Kim Farah wrote in an e-mail. "No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information." She did not elaborate.
Outside the Los Angeles temple Thursday, dozens of protesters screamed "Bigots" and "Shame on You" at half a dozen men in button-down shirts and ties who looked out at the demonstration from behind the temple's closed gates.
The men did not respond.
Benjamin Wiser, 27, came to the protest dressed as a Mormon missionary, complete with black plastic name tag.
It was not a costume, he said. He was a missionary and a member of the church until age 23, when he left because he was gay.
Wiser said he did not feel the protesters were unfairly targeting the church.
"I don't think the Mormon church should be involved," he said.
Some gay-rights activists said they plan to continue to question the church's involvement.
Lorri L. Jean, chief executive of the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center, which organized the rally outside the temple, announced the launch of a new website, invalidateprop8.org, which will raise money to fight for same-sex marriage rights in California.
For every $5 donated, Jean said, a postcard will be sent to the president of the Mormon church condemning "the reprehensible role the Church of Latter-day Saints leadership played in denying all Californians equal rights under the law."
"It is a travesty that the Mormon Church bought this election and used a campaign of lies and deception to manipulate voters in the great state of California," she said.
David Loder, 40, a business manager from Corona and a member of the Mormon church, heard about the protest on the radio. He said he was saddened by the anger directed against the church.
Loder said he had not given money to the Yes-on-8 campaign because finances are tight raising five daughters, but he did put a sign in his frontyard. It was vandalized, he said.
"As a member of the LDS church we have known [and still do] the feeling of being ridiculed and mistreated because of our faith," he said.
Garrison and Lin are Times staff writers.
jessica.garrison@latimes.com
joanna.lin@latimes.com
Times staff writer Tami Abdollah contributed to this article.

[Don]

My take is that the protesters are concentrating on one of their opponents, rather than dissipate their protests. It makes more news to have a larger number at one place in a city, than have a few at many places. It is like the UAW striking the automakers, they pick on only one automaker at a time.

[michael_legna]

Bishop William Weigand, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento and former Bishop of Salt Lake City, in response to attacks on the Mormon Church for supporting California's Proposition 8, defending the traditional definition of marriage: "Catholics stand in solidarity with our Mormon brothers and sisters in support of traditional marriage -- the union of one man and one woman -- that has been the major building block of Western Civilization for millennia.
"The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful campaign to pass Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every faith and ethnicity. LDS were included -- but so were Catholics and Jews, Evangelicals and Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and Anglos.
"Bigoted attacks on Mormons for the part they played in our coalition are shameful and ignore the reality that Mormon voters were only a small part of the groundswell that supported Proposition 8."


MormonTimes - Catholic Bishop Weigand decries bigotry against Mormons

[Darth_Bill]

Well, goodie. See, I haven't followed it that closely. I'm sure it was posted on MADB but I only looked at a few of the posts. When it hit the DrudgeReport, I decided to post something here.

Thanks ML.

Also, as to Don's post, I'm sure it might be that focus, as LDS are quite committed to hetero marriage and it might be more unwise politically to tick off all those latino catholics.

My employer gets picketed because it does business with another Chicago company that is in constant labor conflict. Never really understood what that does for them.

Just that we get picketed because we are a "cult" by other christians and now we're taking the heat from people who like to play with someone who has the same parts.

And this isn't about rights. Everyone has the right to marry someone from the other gender.

And that commercial about Mormon missionaries breaking into people's homes and forcing them....What claptrap.

[ctrups]

There are various reasons for the "No on 8" crowd to protest at Mormon buildings.

The "no on8" crowd are not all part of the Gay lifestyle but most of the protestors seem to be,at least from the interviews I've seen on the news.

The LDS church is being targeted for protest because of the perception that it's members contributed the majority of the "yes on 8" funds.Also the LDS church's members were involved in leg work campaigning to an extent that all other religious groups activities added up did not equal 1/5 of what the LDS members did.

Throughout our neighborhoods it became a standard joke that you could tell where all the Mormons lived because they were the ones with YES ON 8 signs in their yards.

The Mormon population in california hovers at or just below 800,000.Of those there are youth and people not even registered to vote.So at the most the Mormon vote was prolly 1/5 of the total YES votes.

I find it funny that the protestors keep chanting "No on 8"as if they can still encourage people as to which way to vote.

DEAN

[Pigtown]

The LDS church came out heavily against prop. 8 and that was big news. There really aren't many times that the LDS Church leadership will actually speak out against any political topic. Those who are protesting at LDS Temples are doing so to bring attention to themselves and trying to prove that the Mormons are hateful and small-minded. They don't realize or don't want to believe that the Bible teaches against Homosexual behavior. Guess that's more proof that the LDS Church is Christian, after all! Most people do not know anything about the LDS Church or its teachings but they still claim they are different (not Christian). I'm glad the church spoke out. Actually, I wish they'd speak out against abortion also.

[Darth_Bill]

> Actually, I wish they'd speak out against abortion also.

Joseph Smith said, "I teach them correct principles, and let them govern themselves." This echos their stance in most elections. They let us decide.

Let there not be any confusion, the church is pro-life. Just because there aren't political statements coming from SLC doesn't mean that the church doesn't teach it, advocate it, or otherwise support it. It just doesn't do it as a corporate entity. The church acts individually. It also doesn't think that it needs to command us in all things. We can figure it out. Considering what the church outlays in adoptions, counseling, etc, it doesn't take long to figure out what it thinks.

The LDS church operates differently than many other churches. It takes leaders from the general membership. It relies on volunteers for almost everything. It sends knuckleheaded 19 year olds to preach the gospel. It knows what it is doing. It has raised a very well educated, activist group of people. At the drop of a hat, it can call on almost any member to give a 20 minute talk on almost any gospel topic. Just because it doesn't issue political statements doesn't mean it doesn't have a voice.

[Pigtown]

Hey, DB:
The Church is pro-life in certain instances. Remember, President Hinckley said, in a Conference talk, that abortion is allowed in cases of rape or incest. If all children are children of Heavenly Father, then all children should be given the same opportunity to live. This is one statement that Presidet Hinckley made that I admit to disagreeing with. He said it during the October, 1998 General Conference.
Your statement about sending knuckleheaded 19 year olds out is right on the money! A few years ago my husband was asked to go out with the missionaries to teach a couple since they are from the same country as my husband. The couple were Christians but were interested in learning more about the Mormon Church. Well, these missionaries told the couple that everything they knew was wrong and simply went on and on about them (the couple) not knowing anything. When my husband got home he was furious. Those kids did nothing but put those people down and actually turned them off. My husband told me that those young kids should never have been out teaching. They did more harm than good. I know that not all missionaries are like that. We've known some very nice ones (most of them, in fact).

[Darth_Bill]

I remember one of my companions telling someone that unless they were mormon they go to Hell. Other than a complete and utter oversimplification, it really isn't true. Bonehead. I wanted to tackle him.

Almost got sent home because of that loser.

And there are exceptions, and perhaps GBH felt differently but rape and incest can REALLY screw someone up. Psychologically, I mean. Also, and this is VERY important. We do not believe that the child's opportunity for salvation is in any way affected. We do value human life, with the realization that it isn't everything that exists. We are spirits who inhabit bodies.

It is very neat and clean until you meet someone who had to face this situation. It is rarely neat and clean. I think there is council to keep or adopt the baby out, but the mental state of the mother can be very, very messed up over the period. I certainly can't put myself in that situation.