The Body Of Christ

[Vessel]

This is the one and only true Denomination. All others have come about through the intervention of the adversary, bringing about confusion and deception to deceive. Sometimes, some one is given a word of truth and the deception within his given denomition is revealed, and He will withdraw to begin a seperate path of ministery. Maybe when he is gone to rest with the Lord, someone else less prepaired will try to continue his work and fail because of a lask of spiritual guidance.

Pray for Knowledge and wisdom in the word so that you might rightfully devide the word of life. receiveing the light that is the Word of God. Only through Jesus Christ is there salvation, It is found in no other. No denomionation can guarantee your salvation or stand for you in that final day. Study to find your self approved.

Vessel

[michael_legna]

Originally Posted by Vessel

This is the one and only true Denomination. All others have come about through the intervention of the adversary, bringing about confusion and deception to deceive.
Vessel

Can you provide any scripture to support your contention that the group of men Jesus formed into a Church, the one He built upon a rock, has been overcome by the intervention of the adversary?

Oh and be certain to show how these verses you come up with can be interpreted consistently with the promise of Jesus that even the gates of hell would not prevail against that Church.

I ask because if you don't think it has been overcome, that it was not a denomination, then where is it. Where is the man alive today who was trained by someone, who was trained by someone, who was trained by someone, on and on all the way back to the Apostles. If this man exists we should all be following him. If he doesn't exist then somewhere the connection was broken and you are right (the adversary prevailed) and scripture is wrong.

[Darth_Bill]

>Can you provide any scripture to support your contention that the group of men Jesus formed into a Church, the one He built upon a rock, has been overcome by the intervention of the adversary?

I think this depends on how you interpret scripture and the 1st century church. I think it is quite clear that the early church fell. Reading the ANF tells me as much. However, you would interpret it differently, because that is what you want to believe. Most of the letters in the NT are for correction. The church was straying even then. The apostles died with no successors (I don't believe bishops hold that office). The rudder and generally accepted authority of the saints was lost. As Paul mentioned, there must be an apostacy before the second coming. For my world view, even the formulation of the creeds screams "WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING!"

Your mileage may vary.

>Oh and be certain to show how these verses you come up with can be interpreted consistently with the promise of Jesus that even the gates of hell would not prevail against that Church.

So would you accept my interpretation of that verse? It is entirely consistant in my world view. Maybe not yours, but that is the nature of the beast.

>Where is the man alive today who was trained by someone, who was trained by someone, who was trained by someone, on and on all the way back to the Apostles.

Actually, I can trace my priesthood lineage back to Peter, James and John. (I even have it on paper, so it must be true. I think it is within 8 generations) I don't expect you to believe it, but I do.

[Don]

"gates of hell" is a hebrew idiom for a grotto in Ceasarea Philippi (where Jesus was speaking this verse) where many pagan idols were kept in hollowed out caves. As there were so many idols there, it was considered a very unholy place by Jews. Jesus is saying that even there, God will win.
Don

[michael_legna]

Originally Posted by Don

"gates of hell" is a hebrew idiom for a grotto in Ceasarea Philippi (where Jesus was speaking this verse) where many pagan idols were kept in hollowed out caves. As there were so many idols there, it was considered a very unholy place by Jews. Jesus is saying that even there, God will win.
Don

I have heard the gates of hell also referred to the pit beneath the Holy of Holies that goes down under the Temple and the Jews believed that it lead to hell. So which idiom or tradition are we to apply to this message. I accept the one equating the gate sof hell to the real powers of Satan - not to the one which equates the pagan idols to the gates of hell as that one minimizes Christ's promise.

I mean its really not much of a promise for God to say His Church will overcome a bunch of Roman pagan temples and the idols associated with them when we know the idols are nothing and can even eat the food offered to them - they are so insiginificant. No, it is much more of a promise to say that the powers of hell and attacks of the devil will never overcome His Church.

[Vessel]

Michael, Ive never said that the true church of God. That Church that is of the spirit and that was built upon the principles that peter stood for, has been overcome by the adversary. I simply contend that the RC is not that church. I see no where in scripture regarding the diciples, where peter was ever Chief amoung them. He was never cannonised, and none reconised him as their "Pope".

I find no actual evidence in the bible where peter went to Rome. Babbalon, yes, Rome no. and on that matter, my guess is as good as yours. mere speculation.

Paul went to rome and ministered to the Romans.

Simon Magus went to Rome and established a false "Christian" Church. So it was propably Simon Magus , not Simon "Peter" that established that Mystery Babbalon religion that persist to this day.

You asked for my response. Here it is.


Vessel

[Don]

I see Jesus "gates of hell" statement as saying that EVEN HERE, in this place considered the ultimate in pagan grossness by Jews, God will establish His Kingdom.

Don