Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) - Page 2 - ChristiansOnline.CC

michael_legna · 01-12-2006, 08:09 AM

Another way God limits Himself is that He does not fix every thing that is wrong. This issue is real, we know, because many people have lost the faith over the fact that there is pain and suffering in the world and they cannot believe in an all powerful God who could let this go on. So yes God is all powerful - does that mean He chooses to exert that power at all times? No. Similarly, God is all knowing - does that mean He chooses to know all things? No.

Don · 01-12-2006, 10:25 AM

God chooses to limit Himself, for example, by covenants.

Don

michael_legna · 01-12-2006, 10:53 AM

Good point Don, I never even thought of that!

coleenschoen · 03-05-2006, 02:08 PM

you know legna that is difficult to answer and being concerned that i was assuming what jehovahs reactions were regarding what he sees going on,........but i do know that when we see the prophecy told way before anything has occurred ,remembering not only he can determine what choices a group of peoples might make.id have to say that this is a very touchy subject,because we would have to speculate on what jehovah thinks and perhaps he might not like that as far as predestination we can be assured one thing that he allows all his creatures whether in spirit form or physical the gift of free will and he does allow creation to make good chices and bad choices.i think what is important here is to recognize that what we see going on now and in the past with how he deals with creation is probably more profoundly intense then we could ever grasp at this time.i think this thread is more thought provoking than post provoking,but a very interesting thread

michael_legna · 03-05-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleenschoen

you know legna that is difficult to answer...

...i'd have to say that this is a very touchy subject...

...probably more profoundly intense then we could ever grasp at this time...

I agree completely! I was just offering my thoughts on it. The whole issue deals with infinite concepts and humans with our pitiful measly understandings of such things can only guess at such answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleenschoen

i think this thread is more thought provoking than post provoking,but a very interesting thread

Yes, but when we share our thoughts in posts we might be able to help each other abandon faulty thinking; even if we have little chance of coming to any conclusive decision as to the ultimate truth of this issue.

HisGirl · 03-05-2006, 09:34 PM

How can God be surprised with anything when He lives outside of time? God does not live in time. One of God's attributes is that He is omniscent that alone indicates He cannot be surprised.

michael_legna · 03-06-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisGirl

How can God be surprised with anything when He lives outside of time?

How do you explain our free will then? I am interested in how you resolve the issue, that if God already knows what we are going to do, how is it that we are free to do anything but that? It seems to me that either we are not truly free or God doesn't know what we are going to do. How do you see it?

Darth_Bill · 03-06-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisGirl

How can God be surprised with anything when He lives outside of time? God does not live in time. One of God's attributes is that He is omnicient that alone indicates He cannot be surprised.

Not sure if this is truly the case. While he might perceive time differently, it doesn't mean he is outside of it. If our view of eternity is truly based on our view, then perhaps we should rethink God's attributes in those terms. For example, while God is eternal, being inside of time only might mean eternal is only relative to us, then God might not have that attribute.

For example, we live much longer than bacteria in a petre dish. To them, we are eternal, as we live thousands, if not millions of their lifetimes. See where I'm going?

Actually, then living from eternity to eternity might have meaning.

Don · 03-06-2006, 03:19 PM

In my understanding, the Bible says that God is omniscient, and also asks us to choose between good and evil. I accept both are true.

If someone thinks there is a problem, then (for me) that is their problem as (to me) they are misunderstanding something for there to be a problem.

Don

michael_legna · 03-06-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don

In my understanding, the Bible says that God is omniscient, and also asks us to choose between good and evil. I accept both are true.

If someone thinks there is a problem, then (for me) that is their problem as (to me) they are misunderstanding something for there to be a problem.

Don

What then is your answer to this question?

If God already knows what we are going to do, how is it possible that we are free to do something other than what He knows we are going to do?

01-12-2006, 08:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
michael_legna Established Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,922	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) Another way God limits Himself is that He does not fix every thing that is wrong. This issue is real, we know, because many people have lost the faith over the fact that there is pain and suffering in the world and they cannot believe in an all powerful God who could let this go on. So yes God is all powerful - does that mean He chooses to exert that power at all times? No. Similarly, God is all knowing - does that mean He chooses to know all things? No. __________________ 2Co 3:6-8 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ... 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

01-12-2006, 10:25 AM	#12 (permalink)
Don Established Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manassas, VA, USA Posts: 6,052	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) God chooses to limit Himself, for example, by covenants. Don __________________ Don, a charismatic Biblical egalitarian studying Hebrew roots of Christianity and 1st century context of the Bible. My growth work: my lack of trust due to fear and that love is more important than being right.

01-12-2006, 10:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
michael_legna Established Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,922	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) Good point Don, I never even thought of that! __________________ 2Co 3:6-8 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ... 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

03-05-2006, 02:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
coleenschoen Frequent Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: maine Posts: 133	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) you know legna that is difficult to answer and being concerned that i was assuming what jehovahs reactions were regarding what he sees going on,........but i do know that when we see the prophecy told way before anything has occurred ,remembering not only he can determine what choices a group of peoples might make.id have to say that this is a very touchy subject,because we would have to speculate on what jehovah thinks and perhaps he might not like that as far as predestination we can be assured one thing that he allows all his creatures whether in spirit form or physical the gift of free will and he does allow creation to make good chices and bad choices.i think what is important here is to recognize that what we see going on now and in the past with how he deals with creation is probably more profoundly intense then we could ever grasp at this time.i think this thread is more thought provoking than post provoking,but a very interesting thread

03-05-2006, 09:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
HisGirl Regular Contributor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: here Posts: 72	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) How can God be surprised with anything when He lives outside of time? God does not live in time. One of God's attributes is that He is omniscent that alone indicates He cannot be surprised. __________________ Gotta love it!!

03-06-2006, 03:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
Don Established Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manassas, VA, USA Posts: 6,052	Re: Is God Ever Surprised? Part 1 (predestination) In my understanding, the Bible says that God is omniscient, and also asks us to choose between good and evil. I accept both are true. If someone thinks there is a problem, then (for me) that is their problem as (to me) they are misunderstanding something for there to be a problem. Don __________________ Don, a charismatic Biblical egalitarian studying Hebrew roots of Christianity and 1st century context of the Bible. My growth work: my lack of trust due to fear and that love is more important than being right.