Praying to Mary: Why Pray To Dead People?

[Shelli]

There is no Scriptural precedent for praying to anybody other than to God, Himself.

Strange ideologies which promote "praying" to Mary, the "mother of God," are unfounded by Scripture, and can have only contrived and twisted justification. Hopefully, such worthless efforts, supported by worthless reasoning, will continue to be seen as having no material effect upon any circumstances within anyone's life.

Imaginary benefits will come forth, I am sure. But those anecdotal accounts will be significant only to those who cannot understand true spirituality in God through Christ, according to Scripture.

Shelli.

[Servants_Heart]

yeah,i must say this is ONE of the MANY things that has put me off of the catholics.it seems very cult like at times in that church (to me)chanting and repeating the same prayers,i mean what for?its all by rote what exactly does it all mean?and for some reason the person doing it some how feels more righteous,more forgiven,more loved by god.i dont think so.

[michael_legna]

Shelli,

You are misusing this area as well. This area is to provide what defines your denomination, which is why the instructions ask us -

What are the core beliefs of your denomination?

I will be reporting your posts to the FA so he can move them to th debate area.

Originally Posted by Shelli

There is no Scriptural precedent for praying to anybody other than to God, Himself.

Prayer to the Saints who have gone on before us and are in the Church Triumphant in heaven is not worshipful prayer as one offers to God. It is merely the asking of those Saints and members of the Church to pray with us and for us to God. In that regard the idea is supported in Scripture, because the members of the Church are told to pray for each other.

Originally Posted by Shelli

Imaginary benefits will come forth, I am sure. But those anecdotal accounts will be significant only to those who cannot understand true spirituality in God through Christ, according to Scripture.

James 5:16 tells us that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much and who could be more righteous than those who are already with God in heaven? I don't think effectual means imaginary benefits.

[Pigtown]

Instead of praying to dead people I often "talk" to people who have moved on to eternity. I do not pray to them but I do talk to them and sometimes even ask them to speak to Heavenly Father for me. I don't see anything wrong with this. Mary, being the mother of Jesus, is a good one to ask to speak to her Son. If anyone doesn't want to talk to Mary, other saints or others who have passed on then they don't have to.

[Servants_Heart]

one thing that i was thinking about was that jesus talked to 'dead people'
the transfiguration was one such recorded instance ,was it not?

[Darth_Bill]

>I don't see anything wrong with this.

I think the scriptures state that Jesus is the mediator. I think that does it for me. That and Jesus gave us the pattern of prayer. We pray to Heavenly Father.

I know the catholics have their thing with other people praying and I see the logic, but I think it is missing some crucial elements.

First, there isn't an example of the practice in the scriptures. Yes, it is good for the community to pray together. I see purpose in that. I think it is a stretch to somehow included dead people in that mix.

Second, Jesus is our mediator. He is between God and man. I think the scriptures are very plain and explicit in that role.

I think that the example that SH pointed to is a little different. On the Mount of Transfiguration, those dead people were actually there. It wouldn't be prayer as they were there, it would be talking.

As I said, I understand the logic that gets the catholics there, but I don't see it as a proper practice. Just as I don't see veneration of saints as a proper practice.

[Shelli]

Originally Posted by michael_legna

Shelli,

You are misusing this area as well. This area is to provide what defines your denomination, which is why the instructions ask us -

What are the core beliefs of your denomination?

I will be reporting your posts to the FA so he can move them to th debate area.



Prayer to the Saints who have gone on before us and are in the Church Triumphant in heaven is not worshipful prayer as one offers to God. It is merely the asking of those Saints and members of the Church to pray with us and for us to God. In that regard the idea is supported in Scripture, because the members of the Church are told to pray for each other.



James 5:16 tells us that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much and who could be more righteous than those who are already with God in heaven? I don't think effectual means imaginary benefits.

Asking dead people to "pray with us" is not demonstrated in Scripture by any Apostles.

Remember, Miche, you said you would "refute" my statements with Scripture. And, "using Scripture" does not include adding human contrivances to Scripture's clear meaning.

Lol.

Shelli.

[michael_legna]

Originally Posted by Shelli

Asking dead people to "pray with us" is not demonstrated in Scripture by any Apostles.

I have already provided support from Scripture (James 5:16) for having the Saints in heaven (who are not dead but living - as God is not God of the dead but of the living) pray with us. They are that great cloud of witnesses mentioned in Heb 12:1. We see them offering the prayer of the faithful in Rev 5:8.

You on the other hand have offered no support for your claim that this idea is not supported by Scripture. You cannot just claim that things are not found in Scripture you must prove it or show that Scripture speaks against it. You have done neither.

Originally Posted by Shelli

Remember, Miche, you said you would "refute" my statements with Scripture. And, "using Scripture" does not include adding human contrivances to Scripture's clear meaning.

Don't presume to tell me what I said - unless you can quote me from a previous post. Your memory is just not that trustworthy and neither are your claims for that matter.

[Servants_Heart]

thinking about this subject over the last couple of days ,it think that calling returned souls to god "dead people" is the thing.they are not dead,only their bodies have died,and not their souls.so they arent really dead ,isnt that right micheal?

[michael_legna]

Originally Posted by Servants_Heart

thinking about this subject over the last couple of days ,it think that calling returned souls to god "dead people" is the thing.they are not dead,only their bodies have died,and not their souls.so they arent really dead ,isnt that right micheal?

Exactly, that is why Catholics refer to the Church Triumphant (those already with God) and the Church Suffering (those being purged as described in 1 Cor 3:11-15) and the Church Militant (those of us on earth still running the race).